[This story contains spoilers from Industry season four, episode five.]
Toheeb Jimoh confesses he’s not so sure we’re meant to actually like any of the power-hungry investment bankers on Industry.
“I think the point of Industry is to try and understand what’s driving these characters to make the decisions that they’re making,” the Ted Lasso alum tells The Hollywood Reporter. “And if you’re smart, learn some of those lessons and avoid it in your life,” he laughs.
He’d know better than anyone after joining the season four cast as Kwabena Bannerman, a British trader at Mostyn Asset Management, who is later recruited to join Harper (Myha’la) at her new venture Stern Tao, set up with her former Pierpoint mentor Eric (Ken Leung).
The fourth installment of Mickey Down and Konrad Kay’s financial thriller, following the ruthless, insidious lives of those working in London’s lucrative banking business, is British television at its best. Premiering every week on HBO to rave reviews from fans and critics alike, this season has kicked things into fifth gear and created a formidable villain in newcomer Whitney Halberstram (Max Minghella).
After ousting his ex-pal as CEO of Tender, the dodgy payment processing company aiming to become a major U.K. bank, Whitney enlists Henry Muck (Kit Harington), who is yet to make a full recovery from drug and alcohol addiction, as well as severe mental health issues. But at least Henry has the support of wife Yasmin (Marisa Abela), hired in a comms role at Tender, a power she is wielding at every moment possible. In layman’s terms, they’re doing all they can to lobby the new Labour government to have their backs.
Things start to turn sour, however, in episode five, when Kwabena and Sweetpea (Miriam Petche) are sent to Accra, Ghana, on Harper’s orders to look for evidence of de facto money laundering by Tender. They find their key man: Tony Day (Stephen Campbell Moore), Tender’s CFO in the EMEA region, who is willing to blow the whistle.
“Tender is really, really on the ropes,” says Jimoh, who caught up with THR for a postmortem on episode five. “Because it does look like Sweetpea and Kwabena, on their trip to Ghana, have found the silver bullet.” Sweetpea is also violently assaulted in a bar bathroom and seeks to regain control by sleeping with Kwabena, in what Jimoh describes as a rare, tender (pun intended) moment for the hit show: “In that moment, they just get to put that shame away and enjoy what they enjoy.”
Below, Jimoh discusses Industry season four and beyond. He talks about what Kwabena Bannerman is actually trying to achieve in a world of tenacious fintech-ers, getting to bond with fellow newbie Kiernan Shipka (playing Hayley Clay, Whitney’s assistant), and jumping into sex scenes in his first day on the job: “I felt really safe, even though I know to most people will read that and be like, ‘That sounds like the worst first day at work ever.’”
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Were you a fan of Industry before you landed this role?
Yeah, I’d watched Industry before I found this role. It was a show that I really enjoyed. And there aren’t many shows that showcase U.K. talent the way that Industry does. The characters are really rich and complex and I feel like it’s just really great parts for young actors — as evidenced by the fact that it’s showcased so many great British actors who are now doing brilliant things with their careers.
What attracted you to Kwabena? How would you sum him up as a character?
Well, he’s a trader, he’s a public school boy, and he’s one of those people who are instilled with a type of confidence only private school can give you. He feels very much like he’s part of the laddy culture of [the] finance bro — [that] feels like it’s Kwabena’s bag. A lot of those people don’t really adjust to real life after [school]. You see him trying to do his private school humor with people who couldn’t care less about any of that stuff. He finds himself at odds with the people he’s around because he’s on a different frequency to them. And in a show where everybody’s so obsessed with their work life and trying to define themselves by their work life, Kwabena isn’t trying to do that. So it really brings up interesting frictions between him and the other characters in Stern Tao, especially with Harper, and Sweetpea in episode five.
So true. He is a lot more relaxed than the other characters. This is a show of highly ambitious people — ambitious to a fault. What’s Kwabena trying to achieve?
He really cuts against the tension. The entire show, Industry, is like: What are you willing to do to yourself to survive in this work environment? And for the most part, Kwabena’s just trying to cash a check.
I think it is money. It sounds shallow. He’s trying to find his place and trying to prove his worth, but for him, it’s about getting that check. I also feel like it’s about finding where he belongs a bit. In the episode, there’s a quick interchange with Sweetpea where she asked him why he got let go at Mostyn [Asset Management] and effectively, he gets caught up in the same thing that Harper gets caught up in. He’s in with Mostyn trying to do their diversity initiative and as soon as that stops being interesting for Otto Mostyn, he gets cut out and let go. So I feel like he finds his home in Stern Tao and like-minded people who actually do value him for the work that he can do. As much he doesn’t define himself by his work life — he is very much separate church and state — he is a very competent trader. They might find him a bit irritating and his jokes a bit unique, but they do value him and they accept him at Stern Tao. I feel like that’s what he’s looking for — belonging.
We enter the show at a point where his and Harper’s relationship is already intimate. They aren’t quite making it work — we see her walk out on him after he turns up late for a date. How do you think he feels about her?
We joined their relationship halfway through. We don’t really see how it begins. So we’re in the middle of this thing with these two people, and it’s very casual. They’re just sleeping with each other and they work with each other. But I think there’s an interesting thing, even if it’s a situationship, when at work, there’s a very clear hierarchy. Harper’s his boss and he’s her trader. But when you’re sleeping with someone, or when there’s a relationship, it equalizes the playing field. In that scene where he shows up late on the date, [it shows] he is capable of hurting her feelings, and she doesn’t really like that. He has that power over her, in a sense. I feel like, for Kwabena, as much as Harper can be frosty, he’s seen the real Harper who is capable of being vulnerable. He’s seen past that mask and as soon as you get a glimpse of that, it’s very hard for her to put that mask back up. So now he’s just there and ends up being a constant for her at a time where I feel like a lot of people in her life are leaving her or turning out to be different types of people than who she thought they were. He’s interested in the version of Harper that the audience is also interested in.
Maybe you can run us through — in layman’s terms — the significance of his and Sweetpea’s trip to Accra in episode five.
Listen, it’s complicated. [Laughs.] Effectively, they’re about to uncover that the corporation that Tender bought doesn’t exist. They’re money laundering. And Tony Day is the key to unraveling that plot and Sweetpea’s got the bit between her teeth. Kwabena doesn’t really believe it’s going to work out, but through her grit and guile, we figure out that they’ve been effectively just bouncing money from one shell corporation to another, and buying assets that don’t really exist.
I feel like the significance for Kwabena and Sweetpea in that episode, and the whole season, is it’s just one episode where two people are outside of the workspace, on a different continent, [and] just get to be really honest with each other. That scene that they have where they’re talking about what they’re into, they get to a level of intimacy that you almost never get with Industry characters. While her nose is broken and he’s off his face, they both look each other in the eye and have a very, very intimate moment. I feel like the whole season is about truth and masks and the version of yourself you want to present, the version of yourself you want to be. In this episode, these two really take their masks off and can really be honest with each other for that one scene, and then after that, the mask goes straight back up.
Where does Kwabena and Sweetpea’s investigatory work leave Tender?
By the end of episode five, Tender is really, really on the ropes. Whitney is gonna have to pull a rabbit out of a hat to save the company, because it does look like Sweetpea and Kwabena, on their trip to Ghana, have found the silver bullet. I guess we’ll have to tune in to see if Whitney can pull the rabbit out of the hat…
How is it shooting those intimate scenes? I read that one of them was your first day on set…
My literal first minute on set was shooting that first intimacy scene with Myha’la. [Laughs.]
Is that daunting?
Not really. I think it’s just work, you know? There’s so much sex in Industry. And by no means is what I’ve had to do the most exposing thing anyone in Industry has ever had to do. [Laughs.] But they’ve built a real safe environment. There’s clear language around how to make those scenes work. Everyone’s really comfortable around them. And we also had a really great intimacy coordinator who kind of ran the entire thing. So I felt really safe, even though I know to most people will read that and be like, “That sounds like the worst first day at work ever.” But it was actually a really safe environment. And yeah, it’s just work.
We also see Kwabena and Sweetpea’s relationship turn intimate. Can you tease where that’s headed — if it is headed anywhere — and what they were both looking for in Accra?
In terms of teasing where it goes, I think one of the great things about this show is that it never really answers questions for you. It leaves you with a couple more as soon as you feel like you’re about to get an answer! The intimacy and honesty of that moment in Ghana, I think, is something that came about because it was very circumstantial. So, of course, they’re going to put their masks back up, and when they’re back at Sterne Tao, it’s back to work. But I do feel they obviously have some level of desire for each other — like deep, deep, deep down.
In that moment, Sweetpea just wanted to have really rough sex. Like, she’s just been assaulted and I feel like it was about her reclaiming her power, aggression and reframing that whole night for herself and not wanting to feel powerless. For Kwabena, there’s a lot of shame in expressing what his desire is and where that comes from. That’s something that a lot of people need to look into but won’t, because there’s so much shame around who you desire and why. I think for the both of them, it was just a moment where they could take all of that shame away and experience that… I guess for most people, a lot of their kinks and stuff are taboo. In that moment, they just get to put that shame away and enjoy what they enjoy.
Did you guys shoot out in Ghana?
No, no. We shot in South Africa. I would love to shoot in Ghana though. I’d love to shoot in West Africa more.
You’re a newcomer on this season, as well as a lot of others — Max, Kiernan, Charlie. Did you get a chance to bond with any of them?
Me and Kiernan got to hang out a lot off-screen. We had one scene where we kind of overlapped, which was really fun, but we were just filming in the same place, so we got to hang out. She’s really lovely. I’m such a big fan of her work. I think she’s great in this season. And she is genuinely just one of the sweetest people. Part of what made it so easy coming into this show was running into someone like Miriam [too], who’s just an all-round great person and great actress.
Are we meant to like characters in this show, or is that not the enjoyment of Industry?
This is so interesting. I was having a conversation with someone yesterday about liking people and whether people are good people and all that stuff. I don’t think that’s ever been Mickey and Konrad’s intention. I mean, I’ll let them speak for themselves, but what I’m starting to enjoy with Industry is that it’s just complicated. People are really complicated. One day you think someone’s a good person because of the actions they do. And people are just as capable of making horrible decisions, whether that makes them a good person or bad person, or whether that makes you like them or not… I think what’s more interesting is just really dealing with what makes them tick. If you put anybody in the right circumstance, I believe they can almost make any decision. So I don’t feel like the point of Industry is to like any of the characters. I think the point of Industry is to try and understand what’s driving these characters to make the decisions that they’re making — and if you’re smart, learn some of those lessons and avoid it in your life. [Laughs.] But yeah, there’s so many characters in the show I just don’t like, but I do find them interesting, so I’ll keep watching the show, and I feel like that’s the same for most of the audience.
Is there anyone you do like? Kwabena’s pretty likeable.
I mean, I’m not sure I’d be his friend. [Laughs.] But I do think he’s pretty likeable. I don’t think he makes that many unlikeable decisions. Sweetpea is pretty likeable. And Rob was as well, wasn’t he? He just got done dirty all the time. I’m happy he’s gone to L.A. and is living his happily ever after.
You’ve got Prima Facie with Cynthia Erivo up ahead, right? How has that been?
It was awesome. It was really, really, really lovely. I got to film a lot with Cynthia and Noma [Dumezweni]. They were both really great. I think Cynthia is such a powerful artist. She’s really, really talented and super smart, and so it was generally just a joy to work with her. That film is so powerful. The subject matter is so so powerful, and it has such great potential to actually move the needle and affect change in the real world. I’m really excited to be a part of it. I feel really honored. And I’m excited to see how people respond to it when it comes out.
You’ve been putting in some cracking performances for some years now. Do you have a dream collaborator or project?
Great question. I always tell myself I should prepare an answer for: “Who do you want to work with?” Growing up, I always loved Chiwetel Ejiofor and his work. I think he was one of my big inspirations growing up. I think Gina Prince-Bythewood is a really awesome director. I rewatched Love & Basketball the other day, and I just think it’s great. And the same mind that gave us that [also] gave us The Woman King and so many brilliant projects. So I’m excited to see what she does next. There’s so many people. I think Viola Davis is awesome. I just read her book and she is an extraordinary woman and an extraordinary talent, and another person who’s really inspired me.
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Episode five of Industry season four premiered early globally on HBO Max, Feb. 6 ahead of the Super Bowl on Sunday. The rest of the series will continue to air Sundays until the series finale on Mar. 1.
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