[This story contains MAJOR spoilers from the series finale of Stranger Things 5.]
Creators Matt and Ross Duffer have always known what the final shot of Stranger Things would be, and now viewers have been clued in on that epic ending.
After five seasons, 10 years and many escapades to the Upside Down, the mega-hit Netflix series has brought the story of Stranger Things to a close. The Hawkins, Indiana, group of high schoolers defeated villain Vecna (Jamie Campbell Bower) against all odds, but it came at the massive price of Eleven (Millie Bobby Brown) sacrificing herself for the larger good of her friends and the world at large. Is Eleven really dead, or should the audience believe the hopeful story Mike (Finn Wolfhard) shared in the final scene of the series, which saw the original group graduating and passing on Dungeons & Dragons — and hopefully a less traumatic teen era — onto the next generation as they exit childhood and close this chapter of the Stranger Things franchise for good. Read all of the Duffer Brothers answers to our burning questions, below.
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How do you feel about the reaction so far to the series finale, and the fact that you’ve now crashed Netflix twice?
ROSS DUFFER (Laughs) I’m surprised I didn’t ask them to increase the bandwidth more. I should have. We’re feeling really good. It was so fun because we went to the Americana [movie theater] in Glendale [California] last night watched it with a bunch of fans, and to see them responding to the show in real time was such an incredible experience and something we’ve never had before. We’ve done premieres, but of course that’s not filled with just fans of the show. So to see them respond the way they did was such a great ending to the story for us.
Was their most audible reaction what you thought it would be?
MATT DUFFER Yeah, they reacted exactly where I wanted them to react. I don’t remember a moment where I was hoping for a reaction that we didn’t get one, and obviously there was a lot of crying towards the end.
You talked about always knowing that final scene, which was the last Dungeon & Dragons game with Mike [Finn Wolfhard] looking down, shutting that door and passing it all onto the younger kids. Can you elaborate on how you’ve always been working towards those final five minutes?
ROSS DUFFER Some of it did evolve as we were working on season five. The idea that we had forever was that we were going to have them playing one last game of Dungeons & Dragons. It’s kind of their last moment of childhood, reliving their childhood one more time. And then one by one, having them leave the basement and Mike shutting the door on it and saying goodbye to childhood and moving on. That was the idea. And then as we were working on season five, we added a couple things, one of which was Holly [Nell Fisher] and her friends. Holly and her friends were not initially going to be a part of season five. That was something we discovered as we were working and we really fell in love with this passing of the torch, and the idea of Mike looking down and realizing his sister and her friends are going to be able to experience the magic of childhood as he was. Hopefully just not as traumatically — although Holly’s already had a slightly traumatic childhood. But it’s why you see Mike smile at the end; is it’s him remembering back to them as kids and knowing that those memories are going to be with him forever. So while he is shutting the door on that phase of his life, it’s always going to be a part of him.
What took the most time to get right as you were filming that final scene? Did everyone nail their last shot on the first take? Was everyone crying in real life?
ROSS DUFFER Yes. Everyone came in for that last day emotionally locked in. The only thing was that occasionally there would be too much crying. And we’re like, “We can’t be sad yet.” The honest truth is everyone was so just dialed in. We originally were going to end the final shot of the show on just Mike shutting the door. And then Noah [Schnapp], the day before, came up to us and said, “Wouldn’t it be nice if the last shot was something that we were all in? So that we could all wrap together as opposed to wrapping one of us at a time?” So the actual last shot we ever did was them from behind the bookcase, putting the D&D books away. Once we knew we had it, and Matt and I told them this was going to be the last take, no matter what. That take is not in there because there’s too much crying.
MATT DUFFER It was a brilliant suggestion by Noah. I can’t imagine doing it any other way, but also that’s not them acting. When they’re putting away their books and walking away, that’s them saying goodbye to the show. So,that’s the most emotional and heartbreaking shot we ever did on the show. That’s why you see Finn break the way that he did.
You promised this would not be a Game of Thrones-level finale, but that the ending would be inevitable. Of course, it’s inevitable that Eleven would sacrifice herself to save everybody. What was the trickiest part about delivering something that you felt was so inevitable, but that also would be unpredictable and emotional and take us by a gut-punch surprise?
ROSS DUFFER It was definitely a challenge going in because we’ve been building to this decision that Eleven was going to make, or have to make for, for most of the season. Even talking with the writers about her fate and what we wanted to happen, we tried to vocalize that in the episode because her decision was hard for us. That’s where we had Hopper’s [David Harbour] whole speech; the trauma of her childhood and all the pain she’s experienced, and that she deserves better than that. These are all conversations we have with our writers, so hopefully it leads to this moment of well, she can’t. Hopefully that still surprises people that she actually did that.
MATT DUFFER You have Hopper offering that point of view and then you have Kali [Eleven’s sister] offering the opposite point of view, which was also something we talked a lot about in the room, which is: How does this story actually end? If Eleven’s still alive, then the question is, is there an in-between version of that? We settled on, could there be an in between version of that? But is that real or not? We don’t know. If we knew, or if Mike knew, then everybody’s at risk and her sacrifice doesn’t mean anything. We came up with Eleven 10 years ago; we’ve been working with Millie for 10 years. So we’re very protective of her. It was really hard. I know we get hit for not killing more people, but Ross and I love these characters and these actors so much. It just felt like such a courageous and brave thing for her to do. She’s preventing what happened to her. What Hopper’s describing is all real, and it happened to her, and it happened to Kali. That’s why when Harper’s giving that speech, you see how in pain she is and why Kali has become the way she’s become. Because of what she went through as a child. And Eleven wants to make sure that doesn’t happen to any other kid. When Kali shows her all those pregnant women, you’re seeing what they’re going to do, which is mass manufacture of kids just like her using her blood. That’s what she wants to stop from happening. She wants to give other kids an opportunity to have a life that’s not like hers.
I know you’re leaving it open for interpretation, but with your conversations with Millie, are you all choosing to believe the group? They end by saying, “I believe.” So, are Matt and Ross and Millie saying, “I believe”?
ROSS DUFFER I don’t know if we want to say. Obviously, we’ve had these conversations with Millie too, and we all have our own interpretations. I worry if I say it, it might take away. We really want the audience to take from it what they want.
MATT DUFFER You can’t write with a sense of ambiguity. You’re writing from a specific point of view, because the character doesn’t know; Max [Sadie Sink] doesn’t know, right? The characters don’t know because they can’t know and the audience can’t know because then it puts Eleven in danger and her sacrifice was for nothing. So there’s a point in not knowing. The boys obviously choose to believe. I’m not sure what the majority of people are thinking, but dipping my toes a little bit into social media, it seems like people are choosing to believe and are going to Mike Wheeler route.
With Eleven maybe out there, and every character heading off onto this fresh start, it feels like you could always check in 10 years down the road. Have you guys ruled that out? Do you keep it in the back of your mind? Is the door open to maybe revisit this group when you’re done with the live-action and the animated spinoffs?
MATT DUFFER We really don’t know. I mean, Mike’s closing the basement door. We’re closing the door on the story. That’s one reason we had the closing credits the way that we did, because it was a way of saying: This is finite. This is the end of their story. It’s the end of the story of Mike and Eleven and Joyce [Winona Ryder] and Hopper. So, no, there’s no plan or intention to tell the story because it’s a coming-of age story. Ultimately, that’s what it’s supposed to be. That’s what the show always was. When he closes the door to the basement, he’s closing the door on his childhood and he’s moving onto adulthood. I mean, I guess a sequel could be about a midlife crisis. That just sounds really uninteresting! (Laughs.) Grandpa Hopper? I don’t know how that would read as anything but a gross cash grab to me. I wish I could talk a little bit more about the spinoff, but I’m not allowed to yet. But Ross and I are really excited about exploring new characters and a new mythology, but still very much are interested in telling a story in the spirit of Stranger Things. It feels like with this final season, we finished saying everything we wanted to say about these characters, this story and the Upside Down.
What have you guys been making of the reaction to the final season leading up into the series finale? Have things surprised you,that viewers have reacted to? The biggest reaction has been around Will’s coming out scene.
ROSS DUFFER There’s always a lot of noise. Obviously, that was more noise. But our main thing was , do we believe in the scene? Was it important for not just for Will, but for the story that we were telling, both thematically, from a character point of view and narratively? And for us, we’re so proud of Noah. That was my main thing — checking on Noah and making sure how he was doing, because it’s such a vulnerable performance that he gave. Noah felt great about it on the day and he’s still so proud of it, and so thrilled that we did it.
MATT DUFFER At the end of the day, that’s what matters to us. But people are extremely, extremely passionate about the characters in the show. Ross and I have always said about the final season, in terms of making sure we don’t have any regrets, is that we put absolutely everything we had into the season — blood, sweat and tears. We left everything on the field. We just gave our entire selves to it. So I know we put all that we had. Why didn’t I take that trip to Palm Springs? You know? Why didn’t I take that weekend off? There’s none of that. We put everything we had in it and I hope it resonated for the majority of fans.
You gave us such an extended epilogue, which we don’t always get in series finales. Was there anyone’s future who changed a lot from what you initially thought or that took the most time for you to land on?
ROSS DUFFER We talked about it with all the actors because they know their character inside and out. So we wanted to make sure that they also felt good about where their characters are. I think the scene that probably evolved the most was the rooftop scene with the teens, just because in the first draft of it, there was a little bit less clarity in terms of what people are doing and where they were in their lives. We worked on it mostly on the day with the actors and there’s an even longer version than that scene. There’s a cut that’s at least five minutes longer, but they really help bring the specificity to their characters and exactly where they are in the moment that I thought was such an amazing experiment.
MATT DUFFER But I will say, broadly, as far as the finale is concerned, the most important thing for me and Ross was that obviously we needed it to work and feel really great to me and Ross, who’ve been writing the show for 10 years. But we needed it to work and resonate with the actors because they’ve been living and breathing these characters better than anybody. And the fact that it did resonate as deeply and that they’re all as happy as they are means more to us than anything.
You have Tales, the animated show, and the live-action spinoff, but is there anything else now that you can share about how the franchise continues next?
MATT DUFFER I’ve been pinned down and forced to blow this already, so I might as well tell you. There’s lingering questions about the rock and where the rock came from [in Henry’s story in the finale] and the scientist and all of that. Because we had said that there is something in the finale that is going to connect to the spinoff. The spinoff is not about rocks or mining the rocks, but I would say that’s the loose end that’s not that’s not tied up that will be tied up. But ultimately, and we have said this before, but I guess to reiterate, it is an entirely new mythology. This spinoff does connect and will answer some of the lingering questions. It’s not specifically about the Mind Flayer or the Upside Down, but hopefully it provides some answers to that at least those lingering questions related to Henry’s memory.
Henry justified his beliefs in the end, amid a hopeful finale. What should we take away from Vecna and Henry’s story, what do you hope viewers think about?
ROSS DUFFER It’s a really tragic story. Jamie’s performance is unbelievable. You see he wasn’t born an evil kid, right? You see how he’s looking back at his younger self and he sees that innocence. And when he lost that innocence and, when Will’s trying to reach him, and Henry makes the choice to not listen to Will and not apologize or acknowledge that he had done anything wrong, these were, in fact, his choices. He wasn’t manipulated. It’s a little bit open-ended as to whether he was manipulated or not, or did he have a more innocent, naive view of the world and the Mind Flayer showed him a different perspective and that’s what changed him. Was he too far gone because he had killed about 20 children and by saying that he had been wrong, how does one live with that? Is he forced to stick with his story? Because acknowledging he was wrong would be too painful. Those are all the questions you’re asking and the questions I think Jamie was asking himself. He did so much work on Henry’s backstory. `
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