[This article contains major spoilers from episodes nine and 10 of season two of Palm Royale.]
Palm Royale has always been about solving mysteries and uncovering high society’s best-kept secrets, but creator Abe Sylvia may have delivered his biggest shock yet in episode nine of season two of the Apple TV dramedy, “Maxine Hears a Confession.” It’s in that episode that Norma Dellacorte (Carol Burnett) not only reveals her true identity as Norma’s supposed-dead roommate Agnes, she also confesses to Laura Dern’s Linda Shaw — real name Penelope Rollins — that she’s her mother.
“I absolutely loved the whole idea of it,” Burnett tells The Hollywood Reporter of the plot twist. “Through most of it, Laura and I didn’t have that many scenes together, and I didn’t know what was going to happen until it was almost time for them to tell me that, oh boy, I’m going to be her mother.”
The scene plays out in a church the day Norma/Agnes has set yet another one of her — what we now know to be — well-meaning schemes in place to marry Robert (Ricky Martin) off to Mitzi (Kaia Gerber), bringing Evelyn (Allison Janney) in on the plan with the promise of giving her a portion of the trust money she’s been trying to salvage all along. The confession both confuses Linda and clarifies Norma’s motives for trying to push Maxine (Kristen Wigg) out of the family inheritance.
“All these female characters have this similar theme, whether or not we know what’s happening, which is about protecting family, protecting narrative, protecting themselves as women in a world that doesn’t see them with the same equity,” says Dern of Norma’s revelation. “The penultimate being this woman we thought was doing all these unbelievably twisted things, every intention was about protecting her child.”
Below, Burnett and Dern talk with THR about getting long-awaited screentime together, their relationship offscreen — including secret dinners with Dern’s mom, Diane Ladd, who died earlier this year — and Burnett’s plan to step away from acting.
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Laura, you’re in two Oscar-contending films this season. How did you manage to film the second season of Palm Royale along with Jay Kelly and Is This Thing On?
LAURA DERN Carol, she’s talking about the fact that I have two films, one directed by your boyfriend, Bradley Cooper, and one directed by Noah Baumbach, starring your boyfriend, George Clooney. Every leading man I ever work with is in love with Carol, and every human I ever work with is in love with Carol, but Bradley actually is Carol Burnett’s boyfriend, if people didn’t know.
CAROL BURNETT (Laughs) I love it.
DERN It is this weird moment of everything coming out at once. But the film with Noah, we made a year and a half ago, and the film with Bradley, which is just remarkable, we finished end of May. He worked lightning speed. Carol is such a muse to all of us, in terms of reflecting what it’s like to make family out of the people you create with. I have the blessing of two movies with master filmmakers who are also like family to me and having George Clooney, Adam Sandler and Will Arnett as leading men, has been bliss to talk about. But as a producer of Palm Royale, nothing can compare to the blessing of Carol Burnett in my life, my family and my friends. She’s my hero and she’s heard it all too much. I grew up not only wanting to be an actor because my parents are actors, but the specificity of watching the mastery of how — even in radical farcical comedy — Carol always came from truth. She created these truthful characters and could do anything that would make us laugh, but we believed the character. She inspired me beyond measure.
Not to mention in season two, I had the privilege of watching her rise from a coma and do the most insane batshit crazy things I’ve ever seen while simultaneously being the most hilarious goddess ever, and no one’s looked more fashionable in costumes. And then, of course, creating the most poignantly beautiful art at the end of this season that I’ve seen, and I got to be the actor blessed enough to be looking in her eyes while she was doing it. So it’s the time of my life.
It was quite an unexpected twist finding out Linda is Norma’s daughter. What did you each think of that revelation?
BURNETT I absolutely loved the whole idea of it. Through most of it, Laura and I didn’t have that many scenes together, and I didn’t know what was going to happen until it was almost time for them to tell me that, oh boy, I’m going to be her mother. I was so overjoyed. It’s the second to last episode where we have our moment together and you’re in hog heaven when you’re doing something you’ve looked forward to.
Three years ago when we started. I got the phone call from Abe Sylvia, who created the show and is showrunner and director, and he said, “We’re going to do this series called Palm Royale, and we’d love you to be in it.” I said, “Well, who’s in it?” He said, “Laura Dern, Kristen Wiig, Allison [Janney].” I said, “Stop. Stop right there. Don’t go any further. I don’t care what you want me to do. I’m in because I want to be with these wonderful women.” And he said, “Well, you’re going to be in a coma like the first four episodes,” and I said, “Listen, I don’t mind getting up, going to work and getting back in bed and getting paid for it. That’s okay with me.”
But really, I have to say I was a little frustrated because Laura and I didn’t, at the time, have that much to do together. But these last scenes were worth waiting for because nobody expected it at all. The audience certainly didn’t. So it’s going to be, I think, a happy surprise.
DERN I am just so moved by the beauty of Carol’s performance and the grace that it offers, especially since we can now talk about it. The fact that we’ve watched Norma, from Maxine’s perspective, as this potentially homicidal maniac — we’re getting so paranoid about Norma as a viewer — and the idea that all these female characters have this similar theme, whether or not we know what’s happening, which is about protecting family, narrative and themselves as women in a world that doesn’t see them with the same equity. Then the penultimate, being this woman we thought was doing all these unbelievably twisted things, every intention was about protecting her child. That is just so gorgeous. Once they flew Carol and I to Paris to do that one scene, she and I stayed for a week and just shopped. We had incredible dinners. It was very cosmopolitan.
BURNETT Wait a minute, when was this? (Laughs.)
DERN Okay, maybe that was a dream, Carol, but I’m getting to Paris with you. My adopted mother and I are definitely making it to Paris.
BURNETT Well, there’s another big surprise along the mother-daughter theme. At one point last year, I was going to call Abe Sylvia and say, “Do you think there might be something in the show for Vicki Lawrence?” And before I could call him and ask, he called me and said, “Carol, would it be okay with you if we give Vicki a role?”
I was going to ask how that came about.
BURNETT He was thinking of it before I could even talk to him. I said, “Are you kidding? I was going to call you and suggest it.” Then the funny part is, he said, “Well, she will play your mother.” When we were doing [The Carol Burnett Show], she played my mother when we did “The Family” [sketch]. I was Eunice and she was Mama. I thought, “This is hysterical. The audience is going to go crazy when they see her.” So when Abe talked to Vicki and said, “You’re going to play Carol’s mother,” she said, “So what else is new?” And Laura, isn’t she funny? The makeup they put on her. They made her look like she’s 140 years old and she steals every scene she’s in. I am just so proud of her. I love her. And then now, I’m 92 years old and I have all these new wonderful girlfriends. And heading the list is you, Laura.
Laura found out that I had never had my handprints or footprints in the courtyard of the Chinese Theatre a few months ago and, unknown to me, she made it happen. I was raised just a few blocks from the Chinese Theatre, a block north of Hollywood Boulevard, and when I was 11 years old, my grandmother and I used to walk up to the Grauman’s Chinese Theatre, and I would put my handprints on Betty Grable’s handprints and Lana Turner’s handprints, and then 70 years later, here I am putting my handprints into the courtyard, and it is all because of what Laura did. It was very, very special to me. More so than even getting the star on Hollywood Boulevard.
DERN Let me just say that, selfishly, I had to right that wrong for Hollywood. To have the privilege of being there to bear witness to that moment was one of the great moments of my life, and to have the privilege of Carol considering me a friend brings tears to my eyes.
BURNETT Let’s not just say a friend. I also want to say a sister.
DERN Family, truly. I got to have dinner with Carol and my mother together and listen to them share stories and share with my mom our stories. Anytime we can beg Carol to let us show up in her neighborhood, you will find me, Kristen Wig and Allison Janney, as Carol can admit, hiding in restaurants. I know you’re having this moment that I just had, which is “how about that you and I are on the phone with Carol Burnett, and she’s explaining to us that Vicki Lawrence played her mother in a skit called ‘The Family.’”
My entire childhood, all the reasons I became an actor, everything that brought me joy, my entire relationship with my grandmother, is wrapped around that sketch. That is everything to me. So for me to be on set and see [Carol] and Vicki together, I thought I was going to faint. And so did Abe. Abe and I just kept holding each other, and we both cried. It was so emotional just to be there with you guys.
BURNETT That was one of my favorite days when we shot with you and Vicki. It wasn’t even a dream I ever had, but if I had it, it was a dream come true.
Carol, you praised Kristen Wiig’s finale performance from last season so highly, but this season you had a musical number of your own. Was that a pleasant surprise for you?
BURNETT I was kind of surprised when Abe said they’re going to do that. I’m interested to see how it shot. It seemed kind of odd to me why all of a sudden Norma would be singing, but hey, what the hell? I liked it. I had fun.
DERN Carol, I can’t wait for you to see it. It’s so poignant in the storytelling. It’s so beautifully handled, the way he intercuts the imagery, but also, it’s such an homage. It’s not only an homage to you and your grace and all that you’ve given us, it’s also an homage to this profoundly beautiful woman, this deep character that we have misunderstood all along, which is really the whole point of Palm Royale, these misguided notions of women in so many ways and what family means all along.
Carol, you said this might be your last acting role, and I know you did show up on Hacks this past season. But I imagine the asks for guest star appearances have been coming in much more now since joining Palm Royale. Are you saying no to a lot of things?
BURNETT It started when I did Better Call Saul, and that was a wonderful experience because I knew Vince Gilligan and was a big fan of Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. That whole crew had been working together for 15 years, so it was a well-oiled machine. I had a great time doing that. And then on the heels of that, Palm Royale was dessert. But unless it was something unbelievable that I could not refuse, I would much rather now be behind the scenes. I’ve got a couple of things we’re working on with one of our producers of Palm Royale, Katie [O’Connell Marsh], and we’ve written a few things, so we’re hoping that we can get a series with one of them, and then a film with another one. So I’m very excited about doing that and just being behind the scenes, not having to put on makeup and just say, okay, here’s some dark glasses and a baseball cap. Let’s go to work.
It feels like this season’s finale wrapped up all of the storylines in a nice, neat bow. Do you anticipate a third season? Is there more story to tell?
DERN There are a million stories to tell because everybody’s lost their minds (laughs). Every storyline is credible. There are myriad ways and places to go and numbers to be had, and we have the most incredible cast possible. So I think it’s a world that people will have so much fun in, but also poignancy within the stories as well. I hope it just keeps growing.
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Palm Royale is now streaming all of season two on Apple TV.
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